New German knife law

[Sal]

Hi all,

My apologies for being distant. Aside from my embarrassment of not speaking German, it has been a very hectic year.

If I may, I would like to discuss the new German knife law. (I have another discussion as well, but it is another thread).

We have been discussing the new law since we attended the IWA Show in March.

There seems to be much disagreement and confusion as to what is or is not legal to carry.

We would like to be able to focus on the needs of the German knife person, as we did in the UK, but I'm not sure of what is absolutely legal to carry.

Can you help?

sal

 

[pick-up]

absolut legal = folder blade under 12cm , you need to open the blade 2 hands . open the blade with one hand is not legal . it is ok that the blade locked , but you must open the knife with both hands

this are with a few words the most urgent facts

 

[Michael 60]

Legal is to carry:

fixed blade under 12 cm blade lenght

and

one hand open folder with non locking blade as UK pen knife

and

two hand opened blade with locking

 

[Peter1960]

Hi Sal,

Nice to see you again on Messerforum, long time no see here. Tough time for a knife making company, isn't it? No two countries share same knife law in Europe. Crazy.

Well, as Austrian I'm on the bright side with a most liberal knife law though I've an overview for the situation of my German brothers and sisters. You already got key data from pick-up and Michael 60.

What do you think to do for Germany:

- more Slipit models?
- common Spydies with adapted opening hole as on the DKPK?

I appreciate your interest in this special situation a lot! Take care

 

[MojoMC]

Hi Sal,

nice hearing from you.

The new unpleasant part in the german weapon law about normal one hand knives is the following:

)(1) Es ist verboten[...]
3. Messer mit einhändig feststellbarer Klinge (Einhandmesser) oder feststehende Messer mit einer Klingenlänge über 12 cm zu führen.
(2) Absatz 1 gilt nicht
1. für die Verwendung bei Foto-, Film- oder Fernsehaufnahmen oder Theateraufführungen,
2. für den Transport in einem verschlossenen Behältnis,
3. für das Führen der Gegenstände nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2 und 3, sofern ein berechtigtes Interesse vorliegt. Weitergehende Regelungen bleiben unberührt.
(3) Ein berechtigtes Interesse nach Absatz 2 Nr. 3 liegt insbesondere vor, wenn das Führen der Gegenstände im Zusammenhang mit der Berufsausübung erfolgt, der Brauchtumspflege, dem Sport oder einem allgemein anerkannten Zweck dient.

(1) It is forbidden to carry knives with one-hand locking Blade (Onehandknife) oder fixed blades with a blade length over 12 cm.
(2) Part 1 does not apply for
1. use at foto-, film- or tv-shootings or theater
2. for transport in a locked case
3. carrying it if you have a "legal reason".
(3) a "legal reason" is particularly with regard to your job, traditional stuff, sport or a generally accepted purpose.


Fixed blades under 12cm blade length are definitely okay, two-hand-folders too.

Everything else is unclear.
For example, the UK penknife isn't a one-hand-locking blade, but it could be seen as a onehandknife, which is specifically mentioned as a word in the law. Since there are no specific instructions for the police yet or any explanations of the lawtext, nobody knows for sure.
It is even uncertain if the 12 cm blade length should only be applied to fixed blades. The text is written in a way that the 12 cm could also apply to one hand locking blades - even if that wasn't intended.
The first experiences with the police were not that nice - apparently collecting all onehandknifes is the least amount of trouble for them since they don't really know what to do.
The term "berechtigtes Interesse" (legal reason) is so vague that everything is possible. In Bavaria some government guy said every purpose except selfdefense is sufficient. But the police doesn't know that and can decide otherwise.


Please note that it only affects the carrying of the knives - onehand folders are still legal to own & to transport.


IANAL: A Spyderco that is totally "streetlegal" had to be a fixed blade under 12 cm blade length oder a folder that has nothing to do with onehand-whatsoever.

absolut legal = folder blade under 12cm

Dirk, 12cm is only interesting for fixed blades.

Legal is to carry:
[...]
one hand open folder with non locking blade as UK pen knife

We do not know that for sure. But the Danish pen knife should be no problem.

 

[Sal]

Thanx much for the input.

I would like the help of the German "afi's" (aficianados) on this forum to help us create a knife for you.

sal

 

[Sal]

Just about any locking folder can be opened with one hand, either by snapping the blade, or by grabbing the blade and snapping the handle.

How can we make a locking folder tht can ONLY be opened with two hands?

Would we be better off to concentrate on a smaller one hand open non locker like the UK of the smaller Urban? Functionally, they are more convenient to use. In friendly colors or higher line with bolsters and scales?

sal

 

[Mephistopheles]

First, thank you Sal for your interest in our Situation.

The following sentences may be just a bit of brainstorming for myself, so please - to the other members - correct me where i am totally wrong:

1. Nobody knows anything for sure. The new law is formulated in such a manner, that on the one hand the police can confiscate any knife of which they think it is illegal to carry. On the other hand there is the practise, that anything is legal as long als no law restricts it. But the last word is on the Judges. Police only does its work.

2. We have no knowledge of any sentences by any court, that would define what a "legal reason" or "commonly accepted interest" in carrying a one-hand locking (not one-hand opening) or longer than 12cm knife is in particular.

3. My personal opinion:

Any fixed-blade knife below 12cm of blade length that is not designed for or promoted als weapon or "tool" for self-defense purposes should be fine.

Further, any folding knife that is designed to be opened with two hands - which would mean no spyderhole,thumbstuds, emerson wave or carson flippers - regardless if it is locking by linerlock, backlock or similar
should be fine.

Third and probably most obscure to read from the law: Any folding knife, that has a one-hand opening feature must not lock - and that could be fine.

Considering all that I personally would prefer locking folders without one-hand opening feature, other than the UKPK which is just the other way round.
I regret that, because that means you would have to find a substitute for your distinctive spyderhole - but at least I would be allowed to carry a true Spydie when and where i want to. And i do want!

With best regards,

Daniel

P.S.:

I just had an Idea of just lasering the silhouette of the Spyderhole onto the blade instead of cutting it out. Perhaps include a notch for two-handed opening in the outline of that black "spyder-dot"...

 

[Sal]

We would have to include a hole, rather than an engraving. Our trademark is a single round hole in a certain location on the blade.

We made a knife for the Danes that had a small hole with a large chamfer. This made it very difficult to open with one hand, and it did not lock either. Their laws are even more difficult to understand.

It is an interesting challenge to create a model that would be comfortable to carry in Germany for anyone.

I'll begin another thread for that question.

sal