German penknive

[gast]

Very nice!
A german trenchknife for the pocket.
Now the false edge like the Native III and a Backlock instead of the liner. and it would be perfekt!
I would buy it! Please built this knife!

 

[Ookami]

I'll be the second to comment on my design

the pivot has to be placed further downwards to be able to close the blade. the tang of the blade will certainly be conveniently covered by the guard.

And yes, this is supposed to be a false edge.

lock-back would be an option, too, but I think is harder to incorporate into the desing.

btw, I didn't mean for it to look like a trench knife, just a regular hunting knife, but well, I don't care as long as you like

Ookami

 

[Myamoto]

Dear Sal,

nice to meet you in our forum. All the ideas that where posted here before are very good. The people know what they are talking about.
As the official "man" of the german knife magazin I will say what I am thinking, too.

A flatground blade like the Manix will be the best choice. It works really good and the geometry is perfect, so you can resharpen it very easy. I like that thing A Nicker-Blade is maybe not the best choice. It looks to much "bavaria" The problem is, the most people do not like, that the rest of the world think bavaria = Germany
If you want to make something that seems to be really german, you have only to make it simply. That thing has to be sharp like hell and be light enough, to be carried everyday. It has to play no role, if I carry it at sports, at work (even I am wearing a Smoking) or somewhere else. It is important that you use a material for the handle, that is so tuff, that you can clean it easily, it has to withstand fall downs etc. Sure, a steel handle is tuff, but a steel handle is not the best thing in the winter, and I want to carry my knife everyday. Also it is heavy. G10 seems to be the no. 1 material. I know, some guys want something that looks so beautiful and nice with wood and bone, but G10 survives everything. If I want something for my collection, I will use something with wood handles etc. But Spydercos are users. These knives want to be in the mudd, in the rain, they want to be your best friend, they go with you to hell and back and because of this we love Spyderco.

It will be nice, if you can use A2 tool steel. I know, normaly you prefer VG-10 and S30V, but I have really good experience with A2. It holds an edge unbelievable long and it is so easy to resharpen it in the field...fantastic. And no problems with corrosion...


So, enough words from me...

Best wishes
Benjamin Berneaud
MESSERMAGAZIN

 

[Sal]

Thanx for all of the good ideas.

First, still, we have to select the blade size. All other factors will be based on the size of the blade. Then, the size of the hole. Then form, lock, and materials can be studied.

We are open minded, so the design paper is blank when we begin.

Myamoto-san,

Stainless is not a requirement. If we use a non-stainless, I would probably vote for CPM-3V for it's toughness. But there are also many very good stainless steels being made today.

sal

 

[cheez]

I posted a poll regarding the blade length here

Keno

 

[Non Sequitur]

Hi Sal! Nice to meet you on this board. I really like the idea of a German Penknife, and I'm sure there's a market for such a knife.

However, the big problem will be to make it distinctive enough to be easily recognizable and at the same time keep the great features of the existing line of knives in the Spyderco lineup. My personal favourites at the moment are the Calypso Jr. and the UK Penknife. Both knives are difficult to improve on from a user's point of view, at least IMHO.

OK, some thoughts on what I consider to be important:

- I personally prefer short blades. The blade size of the Calpyso Jr. is just about perfect for me. However, I know I'm in a minority here, but a blade over 8 cm would be a bit too big for me.

- Blade shape and grind: I really, really like the blade shape of the Calypso Jr. If anything I'd prefer a blade with even less curvature. That shape works best for me in everyday use, and I'm really only interested in a knife I can use day in and day out. It's got to be a flat ground knife. The advantages in everyday use are such that I wouldn't consider anything but a flat gound knife in a user anymore. Try peeling an apple with a hollow ground knife and you'll see what I mean.

- Steel - that's a difficult question. I use my EDC for all sorts of things including food preparation, so I'd prefer a steel that is at least reasonably stain resistant. It doesn't have to be a stainless steel though, on the contrary. I've had some problems with chipping in the past, especially with S30V, and I'd very much like a knife in a tough tool steel.

- Handle materials: That's another difficult one. No natural materials as far as I'm concerned, in particular no stag. Also, for a user heavy materials like stainless are obviously out.

My own favourites are FRN and G10; both have their advantages and disadvantages. G10 "feels" more like a quality material and is just about the toughest material I know, but FRN is lighter and still very tough. I haven't yet managed to destroy an FRN handle in all those years.

OK, I'd better get ofF the fence now ... I think I'd be very happy with a G10 handle with nested steel liners. Doesn't necessarily have to be black though. Silver gray is a nice colour, for instance, and it doesn't scare the sheeple quite so easily. I'd also like a fairly smooth handle. The G10 you used in the UK Penknife is really pretty tough on my jeans.

- Locks: Definitely no liner lock. Period. And no lock that can't easily be used by lefties as well. My own preference would be for the midlock, just like in the Calypso Jr. and all the other Sypdies.

Hermann

 

[RogerRabbit]

Hello Giovanni!
Nice to meet you here! It is great to see that one really cares about the opinion(s) of the end user .
I hope my english is sufficient to express my thoughts.

As obvious, the customer opinions here in "old europe " are as different as the ones in the States. It's a tough job to design a knive aimed at the german market.

To the question, what is typically German:
efficiency and reliabillity.

So, for a "German" knive, i think it would have to be a hard use gear - tool with the simple elegance, that comes from an efficient design. It should be strong, but not bulky. Therefore only High end materials should be used. This also makes the knive light and therefore a better EDC. Structured G10 scales with titan liners would be the optimum (stag is more the Hollywood-Bavaria corner . I'm sure some would like it, but on an EDC? ).

At best it should be made in the U.S.A or at Germany itself, wich simply says "quality" and is worth the extra cash.

A 3 1/2 " blade is not the optimum for slicing bread. Something between 9 1/2 cm and 10 cm is still a very good EDC length and quite usable for any task.

The ergonomic handle design of the Spyker would be a good start, although i'd prefere a bit more of a finger protecting hilt wich can also be used as a "flipper". Kershaw did a perfect job on that with his Spec Bump (the blade design of both the knives are not my favorite).
This gives the reliabillity that you simply can't hurt yourself, even if you'd stick the knive through your car door, and this is a big step towards a knive you can rely on under any circumstances, wich an EDC should be.

Although it can't hurt to work together with german knivemakers, it's not realy nececcary. I'm sure, a Spyderco-Strider would sell as hell! And not only here .

Well, for obvious political and marketing reasons i would not call it "Pocket Tiger Tank", but in fact that should be a good description. Maybe "Spyderco KSK" would be a good selling name .

I hope my thoughts were helpful .

RogerRabbit

Vienna - Austria (no kangaroos here, it's the Glock country ).

 

[giovanni]

Hello Giovanni!
Nice to meet you here! It is great to see that one really cares about the opinion(s) of the end user .
I hope my english is sufficient to express my thoughts.

Sorry, RogerRabbit, but I am only an end user, too.
Sal is talking for Spyderco
giovanni

 

[RogerRabbit]

Oh, well... i must have overread that.... however .

Wish you a happy easter party!

 

[Sal]

Good to see the thread is still going.

I appreciate your writing in English. Thanx much

I think most like flat ground.

"silver" has it's German flavor based on the race cars. I always loved the 300SLR. (Titanium? Silver G-10? )

As mentioned, finding specific features that are uniquely German is difficult, but only you can do that.

I think we agree on "efficient", "precision" and "tough". What other "words" describe Germany, Germans?

I'd still like to begin with one size, although there seems to be two trends based on the poll. One first.

Locks:

1. Mid lock-back
2. Linerlock (Walker)
3. Integral lock (frame-lock, Reeve style)
4. Compression Lock
5. Intregral Compression Lock
6. Ball Bearing lock (large ball)
7. Ball bearing lock with ball bearing holder (small ball like P'Kal)
8. Stop-Lock (new patent, not yet in a model)
9. Slip-joint like the "notch-joint" on the UKPK.

sal

 

[Gagravarr]

Hi Sal,

for me a Spyderco has a Mid lock-back. A silver G10 handle will be great (nearly so great than a Carbon handle ). I'm thinking for Germany it's important that an EDC looks harmless because the acceptance of the "non knife freaks" must be assured.

Greetings from Germany,
Uwe

 

[giovanni]

A silver handle could be nice, also because I agree to Gagravarr and Non Sequitur that it would be an advantage if the German penknive had some friendly and non-tactical look. This can make also a larger blade socially-friendly.
Titanium? Why not? I like it.
If silver G 10 only with a smooth finish, please.

Locks: Well I think if a Stop-Lock is good enough for the "Bison" it should be good enough for the German pen-knive, but I don´t have any idea how this lock works. Therefore I think most guys will prefer the mid-lock they are used to.

Well, I am waiting what the blades size will be... and I will think about what other "words" describe Germany.

 

[porcupine]

After having read all this, my dream-GPK would be somewhat of a "silver arrow":
- 3,5 " blade
- flat ground
- shaped as spear point, not too slim
- silver G-10 scales
- mid lock back
- lanyard hole
- ambidextrous deep carry clip

Yes, I do drive mercedes, at least on my job
arno

 

[Peter Polnau]

mei wos soi I do ez song zum Übasetzn bi I zvei buidl san a koa do da Dranslator macht a ned mid mech aba an jädn fui gaidi winschn!?

 

[Goldfinger]

Are we waiting for something ?

Here is my first suggestion for a german penknife

Klick here for a larger Image
http://home.arcor.de/serious_sam/F06/Modell%20Pamir%20fertig%20upload%201.5.06.jpg

Designed to provide real cutting-pleasure.

Name: "Pamir"
Blade length = 88 mm
Length over all = ~202 mm
Blade thickness= max. 3 mm (continuous thinner to the tip)
Grind = Full flat
Blade steel = ? Not too hard / inflexibible for this thin blade and easy to sharpen
Hole diameter = 13 mm
Lock = Mid Lock/Front Lock (up to the axis as far as possible)
Handle = dual 1mm steel liners with silver G10 (2,5mm) screwed
- or white-yellow micarta with stainless steel or titan bolsters
Clip = Stainless steel, tip down, only one or two positiones

Andreas

 

[Ookami]

looks like a stubby wayne goddard...

I will see what I can arrive at with a scramasax concept...

Ookami

 

[TimM.]

Howdy Sal,

glad to hear that you seem to take the "German engineering" route as opposed to simply putting a pair of stag scales on a folding nicker design and be done with it.

I think one of the more elaborate, unusual locks you offer (such as the compression or ball-bearing lock) would be a good choice.

IMO it needs to get a satin-finished ti handle, no anodizing, with polished CF scales that only partially cover the titanium underneath. Thick pivot pin. Attach the scales with large torx screws for a high-tech appearance.
Also, you may want to consider putting some sort of glossy black coating on the screws.

A really large, functional opening hole is a must IMO. I'd also like to see a "cobra hood" on this folder.
It definitely needs a German carbon steel. You may want to check out this post I made over at BFC for what I'd prefer.
A full flat grind with a hint of swedge on a fairly wide blade would be nice.

I realize that this is not exactly going to be cheap, but Mercedes and Porsche don't market their cars to Joe Average either.

Here's a quick sketch of what I'd like to see:



It's a fixed blade design, but it should be possible to turn it into a functional folder with relatively minor effort. I already added the hole.

Edited to add: don't forget to put a wave on it if you can work something out with Ernie again!

 

[Goldfinger]

Another outline for a german penknife

Klick here for a larger Image
http://home.arcor.de/serious_sam/F06/Modell%20Passat%20fertig%20upload%206.5.06%20.jpg


Name: "Passat"
Blade length = 88 mm (longer would be better)
Length over all = ~204 mm
Blade thickness= 3 mm
Grind = Full flat
Blade steel = ?
Hole diameter = 11 mm
Lock = Mid Lock/Front Lock (up to the axis as far as possible)
Handle = Stainless steel like "Police" or Titan 8mm
Clip = Tip down, only one or two positiones

Andreas

 

[Sal]

Hi,

I am back from traveling, and jet-lag is slowing down.

Good to see this thread is still going.

It looks like we're going to work with 8.0 - 8.5 cm as that seems to be the majority vote in the poll. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Next is the size of the opening hole?

Then the grind, although it seems that a full flat or full flat with a slight swedge ( Schempp diamond?) is popular.

Ergos will ultimately determine the final handle shape. Once we nail down blade size and shape, we can begin handles.

Is a wide blade preferred over a thin blade?

Do we want to include a finger choil or go with no finger choil?

I did see some really nice silver carbon fiber.

sal

 

[Ookami]

Hi Sal,

good to hear you're back.

Although I would like a little more blade length, I think I could live with 8.5cm.

As for the opening hole, it should be big enough for a good purchase, but not too big on an 8.5cm edc folder. I think 12mm like on the police model is about as big as anybody may think is neccessary.

Blade thickness should not exceed 3mm, because more is just not needed in a rather short edc folder.

I prefer blades that are not too wide, because some edc tasks are quite difficult that way, as eg coring an apple.

As for a choil, again I think on such a short blade a choil is hardly needed.

Finally, I would prefer a fullflat grind with a swedge, much like the swedge on the police model.

Ookami