Ich dachte ich stell dass hier auch mal rein - meiner Ansicht nach sollte German Parcel boykotiert werden und möglichst viel "Fan-Mail" bekommen - also wenn die jetzt schon unter Berufung auf §1 WaffG ein Taschenmesser nicht mehr verschicken wollen dann kanns ja wohl nur noch ganz finster werden.
Für freundliche Unterstützung bedankt sich
Klaus
Hallo Forum,
der Vorfall betrifft zwar ein Buck-Knive - ich denke aber dass die Aussage der Firma German Parcel das Messer (Taschenmesser) unter $1 WaffG fallen und von German Parcel nicht tranportiert werden kann uns wohl nicht unbeteiligt lassen.
Anbei die bisherige Korrespondez (in englisch)
Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Klaus
Dear Joe,
pls don´t re-sent this knife yet - seems German Parcel wants trouble - you might want to talk to Mr. Buck to get AKTI involved and should possibly inform USPS too that their German Partner is against all law and regulations harming your business. Not shure if the NRA would cover such a topic as well ?
To German Parcel,
while even in your Terms of Service "Schusswaffen" are covered and not "Waffen" in general even when using Waffen as part of your AGB your behaviour is still highly questionable. As pointed out already you are dealing with customers like Globetrotter sending lots of knives through your system and that a "Taschenmesser" or "Pocket Knife" does not fall under the mentioned §1 of the german WaffG should be known to a student of law after the first semester - you might want to check that out.
Copies of this incident will be posted in the relevant forums over the Internet - especially the US based Bladeforums and german based Messerforum, the relevant german trade publications have been informed already - as will be the influentel Forum Waffenrecht for the german industry.
I can only wish you well in realizing and correcting your error befor your business and public reputation gets harmed too much - until then I will do my best to give you that lesson.
Best regards
Klaus Stoetzel
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Frank.Schwinn@germanparcel.de
[mailto:Frank.Schwinn@germanparcel.de]
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juli 2002 10:52
An: Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de
Cc: Joe Houser; Lars-Hein.Olsen@germanparcel.de;
Simone.Ammelung@germanparcel.de
Betreff: Antwort: Shipping problem with German Parcel / German Custom /
# 970 408 54 023
Dear mister Stoetzel,
I have spoken to my chief mister olsen again and he told me that these
goods are weapons. The reason for that is the german law, I have attached
you the article for that in german and in english version. Please look
under point 7. here you can find the reason for our return.
I hope this will help you, if not donot hesitate to contact me again.
(See attached file: Law on Weapons.doc)(See attached file: German
Legislation on Weapons.doc)
Rgds
Frank Schwinn
Gruppenleiter Service
German Parcel
Paket-Logistik GmbH & Co. OHG
German PArcel Str. 1-7
36286 Neuenstein
Telefon: +49 (0) 66 77 17 720
Telefax: +49 (0) 66 77 17 794
frank.schwinn@germanparcel.de
http://www.germanparcel.de
Wenns drauf ankommt, dass es ankommt
Klaus.Stoetzel@t-
online.de (Klaus An: "Joe Houser" <JHouser@buckknives.com>
Stötzel) Kopie: <Frank.Schwinn@germanparcel.de>
Thema: Shipping problem with German Parcel / German
11.07.2002 17:59 Custom / # 970 408 54 023
Bitte antworten
an Klaus.Stoetzel
Dear Joe,
Dear Mr. Schwinn,
more updates on that returned 560 knife
I had a long and interesting conversation with the Customer Service Manager
/ Director Mr. Frank Schwinn at German Parcel today after unfruitful
attempts to clear up that shipping problem through the normal Service
numbers at German Parcel. (I copy Mr Schwinn on this email)
The answer I got sofar that German Parcel does not ship any knives at all
is
not the case according to Mr. Schwinn but only applies to weapons (as I
wrote the TOS of German Parcel excludes Firearms from shipping but not
knives) - so while the definition of weapon is certainly different
depending
whom you ask the 560 or 110 Buck Knive would certainly not fall under that
definition anyway - at least not in germany as this exact knife is
available
free of any restrictions (maybe if you are above 18).
The only explanation Mr. Schwinn could give me upto now is that custom
might
have considered this Buck 560 knive ereounously as an illegal weapon and it
got returned due to that. It seems there is no system in place (yet)
preventing the occasional error or miss-rating of goods as would be
possible
in informing the customer to give him the chance to clear things up - also
sofar there is no tracking system in place enabling a rejected good to be
labeled as being rejected by whom (means which customs officer) to be able
to "train" such uninformed officers.
Seems our problem arose due to the combination of the above - one customs
officer intentionally or unintentionally miss-rating this Buck 560 knive as
an illegal weapon - and the in my opinion inappropriate and hopefully to be
improved handling of such issues through the German Parcel service.
Mr. Schwinn proposed that after further investigation he would be willing
to
reimburse me for the shipping cost (which sofar is carried by Buck Knives)
and that he would use the forthcoming replacement shipment as a "trial" for
their system to possibly be improved and asked me to let him know the
tracking number when things get on the way the next time.
As Buck Knives is certainly one of the larger companies shipping knives
around the USA and the planet and with CJ Buck being head of AKTI too I
thought I try to explain things a bit and hopefully things should get
easier
for all involved a bit down the road.
Thanks
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Klaus Stötzel [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2002 12:25
An: Joe Houser
Betreff: WG: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
more interesting news .....
I just found that the very same "German parcel" proudly claims that the
german Outdoor specialist "Globetrotter" is among their top customers - as
you can guess Globetrotter is selling lots of knives too (including Buck
Knives and they carry the 560 to) and told me that they in fact do ship
knives regularly with German Parcel.
The plot thickens ....
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Klaus Stötzel [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2002 11:52
An: Joe Houser
Betreff: AW: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
I think things get clearer
In the past when you shipped me knives you went through USPS which then
used
the german forwarder "Deutsche Post" to route things inside germany and for
customs.
This always worked perfectly without any troubles or delays.
Now it seems that earlier this year USPS changed their german partner away
from "Deutsche Post" to the company "German Parcel". Besides being rude and
unfriendly when trying to track this package they (German Parcel) told me
that "knives" are considered "weapons" and following their TOS point 2.3
which states that "firearms" according to $1 of the german weapon law and
"dangerous goods" will not be transported by them. Now this is totally B/S
(not Buck/Strider) IMO and I think you should talk to USPS about that -
they
just can´t change partners and without letting customers like Buck Knives
know about just cancel the possibility to ship with them.
Possibly this is also one issue where CJ Buck and the AKTI might look into
Sorry for the trouble
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joe Houser [mailto:JHouser@buckknives.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Juli 2002 18:52
An: 'Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de'
Betreff: RE: Buck / Strider question
Klaus,
I have a feeling you will eventually get your knife, everyone in the
"chain"
will know it is coming! The label from Germany does not have a phone number
or a department name. There is a rather long number printed on the label
which I hope will be helpful to you.
97040854023
The box had been opened and re sealed with tape marked German Parcel, zup
1a.
I hope any of this helps. Let me know what you think.
Take care,
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:07 AM
To: Joe Houser
Subject: AW: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
just talked to the custom office in Frankfurt where all the air parcels are
coming in - they positively and absolutely denied that they would ever
return anything to the sender without letting the recipient know about to
give him the chance to clear things up. They guestimated that the error
either occured with one of the postal services (in US or germany) which
ereounously might have considered the 560 in question as illegal in germany
or with just the US postal service being much too carefull after 9/11 and
stopping the knife already in the US. In any case the return was a complete
screw-up and I would very much like to assist you in tracking down where it
happened to prevent such in the future. As I emailed already in the last
email I would very much like to know what paperwork with probably an
address
or telephon number was included with the returned knife.
So to make my points out of the last emails clear:
The 560 in question is absolutely legal to own, sell, buy, carry, receive -
whatever - in germany. Even if not legal (which is not the case) german
customs would have contacted me to try to clear things up - ONLY after
unsucessful attempt from my side it might have been sent back but I would
except them to possibly seize it then instead of returning - don´t know. I
have no idea so far who screwed up but possibly one freight-forwarder /
post
agency tries to make a "buck" here.
Thanks again
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joe Houser [mailto:JHouser@buckknives.com]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Juli 2002 19:12
An: 'Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de'
Betreff: RE: Buck / Strider question
Klaus,
The good news is that the package with your knives arrived! The bad news is
that it arrived back here at Buck. :-( It looks like the customs department
in Germany called it "inadmissible". I am having our shipping department
look into this and will let you know what we find out.
Sorry for the delay!
Joe Houser
-----Original Message-----
From: Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 2:10 AM
To: Joe Houser
Subject: AW: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
regarding the Buck/Strider price confusion - if you can´t shed any light -
whoelse can ?
Regarding my "new toy" ;-)
Its well over two weeks since you wrote the 560W/BG42 got shipped -
guessing
that you didn´t sent it by Pony Express it should take no more than 1 week
usually - this is what other shipments from US as well as the last shipment
from Buck took to make it here - taking more than two weeks now I fear
something went wrong and I would kindly ask you to doublecheck - probably
things got mixed up in the shipping department as you wrote you had quite
some shipments handed over that day.
The 560/wBG42 should have been sent to Klaus Stötzel, Holzweg 3, 79194
Heuweiler, Germany
Thanks
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joe Houser [mailto:JHouser@buckknives.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2002 23:22
An: 'Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de'
Betreff: RE: Buck / Strider question
Klaus,
I took a look in our computer and although it shows both with the same
price, $180USD, there is a note saying the spear point is to be $160. I am
very confused! Our original price sheet shows them both at the same price
too.
Sorry no help here.
I sure hope your knives arrive soon, I know how hard it is to wait for a
new
toy!
Take care,
Joe Houser
-----Original Message-----
From: Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:56 AM
To: Joe Houser
Subject: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
one question to ask you
depending on where you look on the web the B/S 881SP Spear Point either is
more expensive or at exactly the same price as the B/S 881 Tanto version.
Bucks own site has the 881 at 160USD and the 881SP at 180USD MSRP.
The large versions 880 and 880SP are the same price no matter where you
look.
This makes me wonder if this huge difference which places the small
Spearpoint at almost the same price as the larger versions is a typo or for
real ?
Thanks for clearing this up for me
Klaus
BTW - you see what your great service is good for - I keep bugging you -
(while for a good reason - seems a B/S is the next on my must-have list
though) - just on a sidenote - impatiently waiting for the postman every
day
waiting for my 560/BG42
Für freundliche Unterstützung bedankt sich
Klaus
Hallo Forum,
der Vorfall betrifft zwar ein Buck-Knive - ich denke aber dass die Aussage der Firma German Parcel das Messer (Taschenmesser) unter $1 WaffG fallen und von German Parcel nicht tranportiert werden kann uns wohl nicht unbeteiligt lassen.
Anbei die bisherige Korrespondez (in englisch)
Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Klaus
Dear Joe,
pls don´t re-sent this knife yet - seems German Parcel wants trouble - you might want to talk to Mr. Buck to get AKTI involved and should possibly inform USPS too that their German Partner is against all law and regulations harming your business. Not shure if the NRA would cover such a topic as well ?
To German Parcel,
while even in your Terms of Service "Schusswaffen" are covered and not "Waffen" in general even when using Waffen as part of your AGB your behaviour is still highly questionable. As pointed out already you are dealing with customers like Globetrotter sending lots of knives through your system and that a "Taschenmesser" or "Pocket Knife" does not fall under the mentioned §1 of the german WaffG should be known to a student of law after the first semester - you might want to check that out.
Copies of this incident will be posted in the relevant forums over the Internet - especially the US based Bladeforums and german based Messerforum, the relevant german trade publications have been informed already - as will be the influentel Forum Waffenrecht for the german industry.
I can only wish you well in realizing and correcting your error befor your business and public reputation gets harmed too much - until then I will do my best to give you that lesson.
Best regards
Klaus Stoetzel
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Frank.Schwinn@germanparcel.de
[mailto:Frank.Schwinn@germanparcel.de]
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juli 2002 10:52
An: Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de
Cc: Joe Houser; Lars-Hein.Olsen@germanparcel.de;
Simone.Ammelung@germanparcel.de
Betreff: Antwort: Shipping problem with German Parcel / German Custom /
# 970 408 54 023
Dear mister Stoetzel,
I have spoken to my chief mister olsen again and he told me that these
goods are weapons. The reason for that is the german law, I have attached
you the article for that in german and in english version. Please look
under point 7. here you can find the reason for our return.
I hope this will help you, if not donot hesitate to contact me again.
(See attached file: Law on Weapons.doc)(See attached file: German
Legislation on Weapons.doc)
Rgds
Frank Schwinn
Gruppenleiter Service
German Parcel
Paket-Logistik GmbH & Co. OHG
German PArcel Str. 1-7
36286 Neuenstein
Telefon: +49 (0) 66 77 17 720
Telefax: +49 (0) 66 77 17 794
frank.schwinn@germanparcel.de
http://www.germanparcel.de
Wenns drauf ankommt, dass es ankommt
Klaus.Stoetzel@t-
online.de (Klaus An: "Joe Houser" <JHouser@buckknives.com>
Stötzel) Kopie: <Frank.Schwinn@germanparcel.de>
Thema: Shipping problem with German Parcel / German
11.07.2002 17:59 Custom / # 970 408 54 023
Bitte antworten
an Klaus.Stoetzel
Dear Joe,
Dear Mr. Schwinn,
more updates on that returned 560 knife
I had a long and interesting conversation with the Customer Service Manager
/ Director Mr. Frank Schwinn at German Parcel today after unfruitful
attempts to clear up that shipping problem through the normal Service
numbers at German Parcel. (I copy Mr Schwinn on this email)
The answer I got sofar that German Parcel does not ship any knives at all
is
not the case according to Mr. Schwinn but only applies to weapons (as I
wrote the TOS of German Parcel excludes Firearms from shipping but not
knives) - so while the definition of weapon is certainly different
depending
whom you ask the 560 or 110 Buck Knive would certainly not fall under that
definition anyway - at least not in germany as this exact knife is
available
free of any restrictions (maybe if you are above 18).
The only explanation Mr. Schwinn could give me upto now is that custom
might
have considered this Buck 560 knive ereounously as an illegal weapon and it
got returned due to that. It seems there is no system in place (yet)
preventing the occasional error or miss-rating of goods as would be
possible
in informing the customer to give him the chance to clear things up - also
sofar there is no tracking system in place enabling a rejected good to be
labeled as being rejected by whom (means which customs officer) to be able
to "train" such uninformed officers.
Seems our problem arose due to the combination of the above - one customs
officer intentionally or unintentionally miss-rating this Buck 560 knive as
an illegal weapon - and the in my opinion inappropriate and hopefully to be
improved handling of such issues through the German Parcel service.
Mr. Schwinn proposed that after further investigation he would be willing
to
reimburse me for the shipping cost (which sofar is carried by Buck Knives)
and that he would use the forthcoming replacement shipment as a "trial" for
their system to possibly be improved and asked me to let him know the
tracking number when things get on the way the next time.
As Buck Knives is certainly one of the larger companies shipping knives
around the USA and the planet and with CJ Buck being head of AKTI too I
thought I try to explain things a bit and hopefully things should get
easier
for all involved a bit down the road.
Thanks
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Klaus Stötzel [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2002 12:25
An: Joe Houser
Betreff: WG: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
more interesting news .....
I just found that the very same "German parcel" proudly claims that the
german Outdoor specialist "Globetrotter" is among their top customers - as
you can guess Globetrotter is selling lots of knives too (including Buck
Knives and they carry the 560 to) and told me that they in fact do ship
knives regularly with German Parcel.
The plot thickens ....
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Klaus Stötzel [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2002 11:52
An: Joe Houser
Betreff: AW: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
I think things get clearer
In the past when you shipped me knives you went through USPS which then
used
the german forwarder "Deutsche Post" to route things inside germany and for
customs.
This always worked perfectly without any troubles or delays.
Now it seems that earlier this year USPS changed their german partner away
from "Deutsche Post" to the company "German Parcel". Besides being rude and
unfriendly when trying to track this package they (German Parcel) told me
that "knives" are considered "weapons" and following their TOS point 2.3
which states that "firearms" according to $1 of the german weapon law and
"dangerous goods" will not be transported by them. Now this is totally B/S
(not Buck/Strider) IMO and I think you should talk to USPS about that -
they
just can´t change partners and without letting customers like Buck Knives
know about just cancel the possibility to ship with them.
Possibly this is also one issue where CJ Buck and the AKTI might look into
Sorry for the trouble
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joe Houser [mailto:JHouser@buckknives.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Juli 2002 18:52
An: 'Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de'
Betreff: RE: Buck / Strider question
Klaus,
I have a feeling you will eventually get your knife, everyone in the
"chain"
will know it is coming! The label from Germany does not have a phone number
or a department name. There is a rather long number printed on the label
which I hope will be helpful to you.
97040854023
The box had been opened and re sealed with tape marked German Parcel, zup
1a.
I hope any of this helps. Let me know what you think.
Take care,
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:07 AM
To: Joe Houser
Subject: AW: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
just talked to the custom office in Frankfurt where all the air parcels are
coming in - they positively and absolutely denied that they would ever
return anything to the sender without letting the recipient know about to
give him the chance to clear things up. They guestimated that the error
either occured with one of the postal services (in US or germany) which
ereounously might have considered the 560 in question as illegal in germany
or with just the US postal service being much too carefull after 9/11 and
stopping the knife already in the US. In any case the return was a complete
screw-up and I would very much like to assist you in tracking down where it
happened to prevent such in the future. As I emailed already in the last
email I would very much like to know what paperwork with probably an
address
or telephon number was included with the returned knife.
So to make my points out of the last emails clear:
The 560 in question is absolutely legal to own, sell, buy, carry, receive -
whatever - in germany. Even if not legal (which is not the case) german
customs would have contacted me to try to clear things up - ONLY after
unsucessful attempt from my side it might have been sent back but I would
except them to possibly seize it then instead of returning - don´t know. I
have no idea so far who screwed up but possibly one freight-forwarder /
post
agency tries to make a "buck" here.
Thanks again
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joe Houser [mailto:JHouser@buckknives.com]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Juli 2002 19:12
An: 'Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de'
Betreff: RE: Buck / Strider question
Klaus,
The good news is that the package with your knives arrived! The bad news is
that it arrived back here at Buck. :-( It looks like the customs department
in Germany called it "inadmissible". I am having our shipping department
look into this and will let you know what we find out.
Sorry for the delay!
Joe Houser
-----Original Message-----
From: Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 2:10 AM
To: Joe Houser
Subject: AW: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
regarding the Buck/Strider price confusion - if you can´t shed any light -
whoelse can ?
Regarding my "new toy" ;-)
Its well over two weeks since you wrote the 560W/BG42 got shipped -
guessing
that you didn´t sent it by Pony Express it should take no more than 1 week
usually - this is what other shipments from US as well as the last shipment
from Buck took to make it here - taking more than two weeks now I fear
something went wrong and I would kindly ask you to doublecheck - probably
things got mixed up in the shipping department as you wrote you had quite
some shipments handed over that day.
The 560/wBG42 should have been sent to Klaus Stötzel, Holzweg 3, 79194
Heuweiler, Germany
Thanks
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joe Houser [mailto:JHouser@buckknives.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2002 23:22
An: 'Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de'
Betreff: RE: Buck / Strider question
Klaus,
I took a look in our computer and although it shows both with the same
price, $180USD, there is a note saying the spear point is to be $160. I am
very confused! Our original price sheet shows them both at the same price
too.
Sorry no help here.
I sure hope your knives arrive soon, I know how hard it is to wait for a
new
toy!
Take care,
Joe Houser
-----Original Message-----
From: Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de [mailto:Klaus.Stoetzel@t-online.de]
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:56 AM
To: Joe Houser
Subject: Buck / Strider question
Dear Joe,
one question to ask you
depending on where you look on the web the B/S 881SP Spear Point either is
more expensive or at exactly the same price as the B/S 881 Tanto version.
Bucks own site has the 881 at 160USD and the 881SP at 180USD MSRP.
The large versions 880 and 880SP are the same price no matter where you
look.
This makes me wonder if this huge difference which places the small
Spearpoint at almost the same price as the larger versions is a typo or for
real ?
Thanks for clearing this up for me
Klaus
BTW - you see what your great service is good for - I keep bugging you -
(while for a good reason - seems a B/S is the next on my must-have list
though) - just on a sidenote - impatiently waiting for the postman every
day
waiting for my 560/BG42
:teuflisch 
?