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https://www.messerforum.net/threads/keidechse-gut-in-form.80939/

Two-Hand-Operated Locking Knife for the German market

Peter1960

Peter1960

Moderator Spyderco Forum
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Es war 2006, als Spyderco den ersten Anlauf im Messerforum nahm und uns um Ideen beim German penknive ersuchte. Leider veränderte sich danach die rechtliche Situation in Deutschland und das Projekt wurde nicht weiterverfolgt.

Es war 2008/2009, als Spyderco den zweiten Anlauf im Messerforum nahm und uns um Ideen beim Germany specific Spyderco model ersuchte. Der berüchtigte § 42 a trat kurz davor in Kraft und sorgte für Verunsicherung. Der Zeitpunkt war zu früh gewählt, um ein, der neuen Rechtslage angepasstes, auf den deutschen Markt abgestimmtes Klappmesser von Spyderco zu bringen.

Es ist 2014 und Spyderco nimmt den dritten Anlauf im Messerforum und ersucht um unsere Ideen für ein neues Klappmesser, speziell für den deutschen Markt. Die Initiative dazu geht direkt von Sal Glesser aus; er steht zu dem, was er am 7.1.2009 im MF geschrieben hat:

Sal schrieb:
We WILL create a knife for you that serves your needs and hope you like it as well.
sal
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Folgenden Rahmen hat uns Sal im Vorfeld genannt:

- Zweihand-Klappmesser
- Klinge wird ein Loch haben
- Verriegelung, kein Slipjoint

Es freut mich sehr, dass Spyderco den direkten Weg zum Messerforum wählt!

Ich werde den Thread mit dem Vermerk "Wichtig" markieren und oben anheften, damit er leicht auffindbar ist und jeder seine Gedanken und Ideen dazu äußern kann.

Das Thema habe ich bewusst in deutscher Sprache gestartet, ersuche aber, wenn möglich eure Beiträge in Englisch abzufassen, dann hat Sal es leichter den Thread zu verfolgen.

@ Sal: Thank you for contacting us with your idea of a two-hand-operated locking knife for the German market and welcome back Sir! In the above German words I explained the starting point to the members of Messerforum; the whole thread is marked as sticky, so you can find our input easily. Now let's see what would the forum members like?
 
Thank you Peter for opening this thread and thank you Sal for reading our thougts!

For me the perfect EDC knife would be a mixture of the Caly 3.5 and a large Sebenza.

What i like about the Caly 3.5:

It is lightweight, it has a sufficiently large 3.5" blade in such a small package, you don't even notice it clipped in your pocket. The deep carry wire clip is a MUST HAVE for my perfect "German EDC"! The Caly 3.5 is valuable, it is smooth. The VG10 is a great "just use it" steel. The flat-ground blade works for fine cutting but is solid enough for semi-hard EDC use.

What i don't like about the Caly 3.5:
Only the open-position of the blade. I like to use my EDC for food prep. When you try to cut apples, sweet peppers, cucumber or salami with the Caly 3.5 on a cutting board, ony the tip has contact with the cutting surface. Here i would love the belly of the large Sebenza regular within the package of a Caly 3.5.
 
There's not much that I can contribute to the topic but I want to say "thanks" to Sal and the Spyderco team in advance. I think it is a great turn to design something special for our poor knife-laws. :super:
I'll definitely buy my first Spydie when the §42-compliant knife gets available. Since the "Endura" seems to be very popular here with the Spyderco fans, a similar knife would obviously sell well.
For my taste I'd rather like a "Military" clone with titanium scales since I'm not the biggest fan of plastic handle scales. If it's planned to be only one knife for our laws, I hope we will be able to chose from different handle materials.
 
I'd prefer a knife design like the "Native" or "Native 5"(with S35VN) . Also the blade length about 8cm (3-3.5") is a great EDC choice, but please no FRN or G10 handles, maybe Carbon?

Thanks for asking

Greetings
 
Well, I just made one in CAD. It's only an unpolished sketch, but you'll get the idea. The size of the spyderhole is 5mm in Diameter, so it should be too small for one-hand-opening. Also, the two lines going from the spyderhole to the spine of the blade mark a milled out area (kinda like the Schempp Tuff), which acts as a nail nick.

For Bladesteel I'd prefer Niolox.


folder-30-tcw-unpolished.jpg



Best regards,
Simon Leineweber
 
Hallo,

I think a button-lock would also be an option, because that could solve the problem with § 42 a. Thus, the blade could be held both in one and in the unfolded state. So you could make a classic thumb hole in the blade and keep the Spyderco optics.
 
Hello Peter, Sal and the rest of the community

First tanks to Spyderco to develop a knife with a tailor-made-solution for the German marked.
If I understand it right, the Spyder-hole in the blade will be like in the Pingo model for the Danish market, but with a lock and of cause for the German legal requirement the blade can be a little bit bigger! :hehe:

For detailed requests I would also prefer:
o flat- ground blade
o deep carry wire clip
o lightweight solution (>100g / 90mm blade)

If you are also would like to see some design proposals here from the forum, I can advise the design competition from 2013 with the requirement do to the German legal situation ( http://www.messerforum.net/_bildarchiv/design2013/index.htm ).
OK my favorite is the “Black Lightning” in 3D ( http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?125876-Black-Lightning-in-3D ). It seems to be perfect for this project. So just contact Virgil ;)

...Keep on going

Regards
Augsti

PS. mit den Links stelle ich mich gerade ungeschickt an. dennoch eine schöne Woche Euch allen
 
I think about a Mercator, cause thats a old german design.
Eventually with a hole for two handed opening and a pocket-clip. The scales/ liner should be made of titanium. It could also have a backlock wich is not as huge as the original one.

Greets
Tim
 
tenacious for two handed opening

a tenacious for two handed opening would be great, or at least a blade with the same cutting abilities.

and i would love to see various colors for the handle scales, black , green, camo(!), blue, orange...

what a great idea to develop a german legal spyderco pocket-knife. i´m really looking forward to it! :super:

best regards,
kimbertom
 
At first, I want to say "thanx" to Sal and Peter for the possibility to tell you guys our preference for the"german-legal-knife"


I agree with this guy,
klingler schrieb:
A two hand Military would be great!
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

but I would prefer the titanium version.
Thank you and excuse me for my bad english.
 
Zuletzt bearbeitet:
Dear Sal,

for me the perfect german EDC-knife would have some features I rather like about my favorite Spyderco's:

- Liner- or Reeve Integral-Lock (my favorite is the compression lock but I'm not sure, if you can declare it as a twohand-opening knife ...)
- easy to clean open pillar-construction
- lightweight handles made out of carbon or titanium
- DEEP CARRY WIRE CLIP!!!
- flat ground blade with a bit of belly and a delicate tip, I like the bladeshape of my Para2 a lot!
- for bladesteel I would go for the "oldschool" CPM S30V which has IMHO near perfect EDC-abilities

I like the scetch of Simon a few posts above, but I think the knife could be opened easily with one hand. To secure the legal aspects, I think it's important, that there is NO Spydie-hole in the classic position of the blade (not even a small one). Instead I would suggest to reposition the small (about 2-3mm in diameter) hole so it's not quite visible in the closed position. Maybe you could achieve something like that throught the shape of the handle.

Thanks a lot to you and Peter!

Regards, Gabriel
 
the invisible spyderco hole in the closed position seems to be a very good idea.

there is no way opening a two handed knives with one hand when there is no visible hole or thumb stud. if we go through the pain of constructing a german legal pocket knife, we should by all means try to be on the safe side. and think of the possibilities of designing something really new...!
 
I would prefer a Spyderco knife without any round hole, because it makes no sense on a two-hand-knife and needs just additional cleaning, when dirt comes in. But Sal insists on that hole, because it is the distinctive feature of Spyderco. But what is the use of a distinctive feature when it is invisible in the closed position? You do not recognize the closed Spyderco as a Spyderco. ;)

And a little thought towards the Military/Paramilitary enthusiasts:
Sure, is also love the flat ground blade with that belly! But both knives are not a EDC for me, because the handles are so big in the pocket, the clip makes the knife be visible from afar and many sheeple be afraid of that knife.
Now imagine what happens if Spyderco makes a German-legal Military. Many of us knife guys wander around with that knife and the sheeple who already be afraid of knives will not understand how such a "big" and "scary" knife can be legal in Germany. And maybe the legislator will notice our "loophole" in the §42 due to pressure from the scared sheeple and say "when such a dangerous knife is legal in Germany, we must prohibit all locking knifes". :rolleyes:

I think what we need is a knife where most people say: "Wow, thats a cool elegant knife! Where can i get that?" when you take it out in an knife-friendly environment. And it must be "invisible" by the use of a deep carry wire clip when you are in the sheeple area with your knife :D

And remember that one-handed locking knifes are not generally forbidden in Germany. When you go fishing, hiking, camping, etc. you are allowed to carry your Military because that is a generally accepted application for your knife. And i think that 99% of all police officers will understand that.

What we need is a "city knife" because most people will not understand, why you need a knife when you are not outdoors.

Thank you J03 for that sketch. I really like it because it would be Caly-similar. I personally would just add a little more belly and make it a symmetrical leaf shape that is completely flat-ground. The milled out area is a really cool design, but i also think that this would make one hand opening possible.
And of course a framelock had to be made of titanium :super:
 
Let me have my small thoughts on that.

Even if two-handed opening is being a must-have feature, pls. don't exclude the left-handed part (10-15%) of the population. So at least a closing mechnism, that gives me the knife in the left hand (without further hand movements) to put it in my left pocket would be highly appreciated. So please only use an ambidextrous lock.

I am quite sure this is one unique kind of a project Spyderco is planning for the german market (which is not really a big one) and there is no space in costing-based belongs for a second side-inverted left-handed model.

Caly 3,5. Deep wire clip. Smaller hole, to comply the german (honestly and obviously cracy) legal situation. Maybe small changes in optics. CF or LSCF scales on demand. Such a knife would not terrify anybody but could be a smart companion.

Steel? VG10 is fine. S30V as well. Keep it low with the costs of steel. MSRP in Germany should not exceed ~€ 200,-- - keep that in mind.

Andreas
 
How about a hole in a hole? A spyderhole in a blade which is congruent to a hole in the scale. So it can't be used for opening, but giving the typical spyderco look. Could be difficult to make that comfortable in hand though.
 
Thanks for letting us take part in the brainstorming!

I would prefer a two-hand Military- or Paramilitary 2-version with a deep-carry pocket clip (not necessarily a wire one).
The scales should either be G10 or Titanium.
 
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